I'm losing on all fronts

"Pilgrim" on ambition, retaliation, and young girls

“P”: I’m trapped in a codependent age-gap relationship. And it sucks, because I feel like I could be having a lot of fun. I do these [events] where I could be connecting with people — not even hooking up. But my partner is very possessive, very jealous. She doesn't want me to be friends with anybody.

I really mean that. At this one [event] I did, I started talking to this lady who was in her seventies. My partner managed to be rude even to that lady. I was like, this lady's not a threat to you. We were just talking about stuff I'm really interested in.

I’ve built up a lot of resentment around that. I’ve never cheated on anybody before, but now, honestly… Thank God she doesn't know about it, but what fucking difference does it make?

We're not technically in an open relationship, but that's the kind of thing I would believe in. A lot of people are in fucking throuples and fucking polycules and shit. I don't want to do that, but I don't know. I have these opportunities. People come to me.

In college, I could have hooked up with this girl I was really into, and I didn't do it because I was in a long distance relationship. We broke up a week or two after I refused the other girl. We just broke up naturally. That was just what happened. So would it really have been that bad if I had done that? If I’d hooked up with her?

You know, in a fucked up way — and this is the worst thing I can confess — I think my girlfriend likes that all these people are trying to get with me. That's part of the appeal. It's like I have this, whatever, this charm.

And on her part there’s still some wild shit. She feels like she can do whatever she wants. She can socialize with guys. She just kind of drags these guys into our relationship. Like, there this [artist] who's fucking six-two, and [very successful].

He came to one of her [events] and she was clearly blushing that this guy showed up. She's like, oh my God, he's there. So I'm like, she has a type. And she’s still pursuing it.

L: Why are you together?

“P”: I guess she just started showing up at my place. She would just show up, come into my building without buzzing me. I'd be like, No, I'm not interested in you in this way. I like you as a protégé, you know, I'll help you with your ambitions, but I do not like you.

I don't feel sexually connected to her. Our relationship is so fucking weird and twisted because it's like, I'm not into young girls — women. That's not my thing. I don't lust after fucking 20-year-olds at all. I am not that young, and I'm fine to date women in my age range.

But she's got this kind of thing, I don't know what the hell it is. She was really into this professor she had in college, who was probably older than me. I'm not really sure why, but she was like obsessed with him. She has this obsessive kind of personality.

So a little bit at a time, I got in deeper and deeper and deeper. We started going a little further. We made out. I had to stay at her place for a while, so at first I was on the couch, but then I started staying in her bed. She started kissing me. One day she gave me a blowjob. A month later, we had sex.

Then we were together. And I've been trying to help her in a weird way, because when I first met her, she'd get drunk, she'd get sloppy. She went to [a liberal arts college], so she was always talking about this fucking [college] and the crazy people there and their guns. She's just into crazy.

So for me, it's more that I want to keep this person out of trouble. I want to guide her. And she's become very successful, and I played a role in that. She might not say it that way, but I was the one helped her see what was right for her. I gave her [the means] to develop her craft, to share it with people.

Because I do connect with her. But there are a lot of fucking people whose lives I could be part of. I could have fucking hung out with all these fucking [artists], going to fucking parties. After the pandemic, that's what I intended. I was like, I want to get back. I've been cooped up for two years.

So I’m losing on all fronts. She’s ruined my fucking reputation, because everybody thinks I'm whipped, and that I’m a fucking creep who's into younger women. Or whatever. I don't even know.

And so I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to fucking do this. I'm going to go to this fucking apartment with this girl after the fucking thing. I'm going to go in the bathroom with this chick, because what the fuck, why not?

L: Then you have cheated on her.

“P”: Yeah. Which, like I said, I wouldn't want her to find out about.

But yeah. But it's like… it's not emotional cheating. You know, it's not like I met somebody else and went, I love this person more than you. It's just someone I met one night when I was drunk. And I feel frustrated that I've been inhibited from this kind of thing, because it's a big part of what motivates me.

I enjoy women. I enjoy getting to know women. But for her, it's her worst nightmare. She comes to all my stuff. She comes to all my events. There are a lot of people I haven't been able to meet because I can't talk to anybody, because she would literally start screaming, and crying, and throwing tantrums, like a child.

I've put up with that because I’m trying to be kind. She is not [the same race as me], so I don't know what her trauma is, what her experiences are like. I try to just give her the benefit of the doubt about everything.

We also spend a lot of time at home, which is not really what I want. I don't want to stay at home and watch movies all the time. She keeps getting food delivered, an opulent sort of food, which is fantastic but not good for you. And before I met her, my diet was very clean.

So she’s just bad for me, you know? She's an abuser in a way that she doesn't really understand. She's so possessive. She's so territorial. And it's been bad for my fucking health. Like I can't go to the fucking doctor, my teeth are all fucked up, my leg is fucked up. I just don’t have the time.

Because I have to be at her place [on a certain day], at [a certain time], and if I'm not there she will go ballistic. She will start screaming. She will start crying. It makes me look I like I did something. She's emotionally a child in a lot of ways, because she's young. And that's her way of indicating she's not happy.

It's just been poison. My whole life, my life is her and I might have one other friend. I spend the whole weekend with her. I've become disconnected from what I really want to do, which is [art]. That's why I came here. That's why I'm in New York.

I don't want to be in a monogamous relationship in New York City. You get in a relationship, you leave the city, you get married, and that's the rest of your life. I’ve done that once before. I've seen this fucking movie. And she's got her whole life ahead of her, but me, you know, this is my last fucking rodeo.

I'm not getting any younger. So every week I tell myself, I'm not going back there. I’ve got to get out of this. I’ve got to get out of this. I’ve got to get out of this.

L: Why don’t you leave her?

“P”: Well, I’m getting kicked out of my apartment, so I need somewhere to stay. And it’s not that I’m afraid of her, but she would not let me go. If I broke up with her, I would probably have to get a restraining order. And everyone tells me all the time, you need boundaries. You need boundaries.

But I try to put up boundaries, and she just doesn't care. It just feels insulting when people are like, it's your fault because you don't have boundaries. It's like, I'm telling her no. I’m not going to just deny who she is. This is what she wants, and I want her to be the way she is.

And I like her art, I think she’s talented. But, you know, that's not an uncommon thought for me. I don't necessarily meet women all the time, but in New York, you're mingling. That's the point of living here. You're in Washington Square Park, in Union Square, Tompkins, whatever. You're part of this social place.

That’s what New York is. It's eight million people, and a few million of them are pretty incredible people. That's why I'm here. I'm here to be around a lot of people. If I wanted to be with one person, I'd move to fucking rural Ohio or whatever. Maybe she’s the most incredible of them, but there’s a whole gallery of people that I fuck with.

To me, it's almost like food or something. Just like, man, that looks pretty good. I'd like to experience that. And after it's done, it's like OK, that was great. That's how these things have been. It hasn't been like, oh, I've met this woman. I'm having an affair because like we're just way better. There are people like that, who she's super threatened by, whom I stay away from because I know she wouldn't like it.

I’m not into ethical polyamory. It’s just surprising to me that these things can't be talked through. I mean, if she found out she would flip.

L: Do you think she would leave you if she knew?

“P”: Maybe we would work through it. I mean, we probably could, because what I'd like to believe is that she would see that it's not a big deal, and if she’s going to be with someone like me, that this is just a part of it.

I’m a [public figure], and things like this just come when you’re on stage. It's not like I’m on a fucking dating app, you know. I'm not actively pursuing it. I don't hit on people. I don't approach people.

L: Do you love her?

“P”: I mean, yeah. I mean, I guess there are different, you know, ways to love.

I definitely love her. In a deep soul connection way, you know, I definitely feel like we're very connected.

It's weird because I'm almost living vicariously through her success. It's already too late for me, but [her art] is being recognized and she's got all the friends. All the really higher up people love her.

And she is very good at listening, and adapting to me. With my last girlfriend, if I complained about how we see each other too much, she would just get more mad. [My girlfriend] kind of understands, like, OK, he's mad. He needs space, or whatever.

L: I feel like you're saying two conflicting things. You say that when you get angry with her, she adapts. You also say you're stuck.

“P”: [Snidely] I mean, as long as she gets her three to four days a week of cuddling. Which is nice, you know. That's part of why you have a relationship.

L: So when you spend time together, you cuddle and watch movies?

“P”: We have sex once a week. Like a prescription. I don't feel comfortable sexualizing her, to be honest. When I met her, the world was just coming out of this — for lack of a better word — hyper-woke cancel culture. So it's like, I look like Woody Allen, you know. And she likes that sort of Lolita coquette thing.

She’s so young, so innocent-looking. This has really worked for her [career]. She is so good at meeting famous people. When you’re at an event and a famous person is coming, there's almost like a wind. You can feel this rustling. So I’ll say to her, that’s so-and-so. And then she’ll go and talk to them.

To see her do it the way you're supposed to do it — it’s exciting, you know, but it's also a little bittersweet. I am not really that jealous of her success. I don't just sit there and go, Goddamn, that should be me. I'm very happy for her. I think it’s phenomenal. I'm not upset with my life. I love what I'm able to do. But it did not go that way for me.

I've been in New York [for decades], beating my head against the wall, trying to get any kind of professional traction. I'm just this broken down, middle aged… It's frustrating, because she gets all that success, but what I'm able to do is limited because she wants me to act like a stay at home husband.

L: Do you think she wants to marry you?

“P”: I've been through this once before. My ex was an [artist], but when we met, she wasn’t [practicing]. After [some years] with me, she started [practicing] again. We went to [another city], we met all these other cool [artists]. Suddenly, I just started looking like this loser, bitter guy.

That's what I do, I awaken these people. I meet somebody when they're sort of nobody. I met [my girlfriend] when she was just starting out. I helped her get on the right track. Now she’s way more successful than me.

Not that I really care about that stuff. I do what I believe in. I'm proud of what I do and I influence these people. I know [my girlfriend’s art] is influenced by me. I know I had an influence on this thing that people see value in. And that gives me value, in some roundabout way.

That’s how I look at it. I don't know if [my girlfriend] will leave me. I'm not really mean to her. My ex I was mean to, because I didn't have any space. With [my girlfriend], I'm at home [some] nights a week, I'm at her place [some nights]. There's space for shit to fucking breathe.

L: So [your girlfriend] does give you enough space?

“P”: If I could hook up with somebody once a month or something, it would be perfect. I mean, she fulfills certain needs. I'm not trying to be super domestic or comfortable, but with her, that is an advantage.

L: What’s the story with your ex?

“P”: She was just as obsessed with me. She was super codependent, super domestic. I was like, how am I ever going to get rid of this person?

We had moved a bunch. We'd had all these horrible living situations. We had packed up all our shit. It was just a nightmare, dragging it from place to place. Dragging the shit, dragging our relationship. One time, we were driving into [a new city], coming over this pass into a valley, and there was so much fog. The car was fucked up. And I just went, we are not a good team. I don't think we're a good team.

And all the [young women] we lived with in [the new city] began to see me as this dusty appendage. They were like, why is this guy here? He's mean to [his girlfriend], whom we like. What the fuck does she have this loser around for? So we broke up.

Women always break up with me after Valentine's Day, because I usually fuck it up. I didn't do anything. I didn't get her anything. I didn't even acknowledge it. I just wanted to go back to New York. I didn't know a fucking pandemic was going to happen.

L: Would you have broken up with her if you knew?

“P”: That's a good question.

I mean, I met her in a crazy fucking way. There was this girl who I was madly in love with, who was like a twin flame. And the night that I met her, I also met my ex. They came to [an event] together. So I was in love with this one girl, but I started dating her friend, who became my ex, because it was weird.

It was like, this is the girl that I would love to be with forever, but this is the girl that I’m meant to be with… forever.

L: Why didn’t you get with the girl you loved?

“P”: Well, she had a boyfriend. It was so cruel the way this all happened. It was just so cruel.

This girl saw me [performing] at [an event], and she was blown away. But my buddy, who is a fucking douchebag, intercepted her when she was coming over to me, to introduce herself. She saw me and was like, you know, who is this guy? I want to meet him. I'm walking to meet him.

Bam, my [buddy] comes in. I mean, he was fucking married. I think they even went on a date. I'm not really sure what happened. But he was cheating on his wife regularly. He was cheating with his colleagues and shit. I was like, how the fuck are you getting away with this? How do you get these women?

And um. You're not a spy, or something?

L: I’m not a spy. Are you still in love with this woman?

“P”: Well, OK, so this was [a long time] ago.

L: So you're not in love with her?

“P”: No, I mean, well, with guys, there's always …

I mean, [my girlfriend] reminds me of her. That's a big part of why we’re together, actually. Have you ever seen Vertigo? You know how he gets with a woman who looks like someone else? At some point I was like, oh my God, am I doing Vertigo?

But [my twin flame] was more like me. She was an outsider, she was not successful. She was kind of poor. Her teeth were kind of… not like, jacked, but she wasn't really getting dental like she should. So it was like, I can relate to [this woman]. When I met her again, she was already dating another guy, but I still tried to physicalize it.

L: Physicalize it?

“P”: Yeah, I mean, we’d make out pretty regularly, but it would always be so hard to make it happen. She'd always go, no, we have to stop. But there would be certain times…

The thing is, she had an unusual attitude for a woman. She loved men. She loved hooking up with men. She wasn’t reserved. She didn't think, I'm a slut, and I don't think that either. I thought I could be with this person, because we're kind of the same.

It would even be embarrassing. I remember once, I was with her talking. This guy she knew showed up, and she just started flirting with him, right in front of me. I was like, I kind of can't believe this, but this is who you are. You just want to fuck guys. You love male beauty.

She loved beauty. Her whole thing was beauty, it was poetry; she loved that poetry is beauty. She was a New Yorker, she was so sophisticated. She was this dark kind of femme fatale. I'd never met anybody like that. She's was everything I've ever fucking wanted to meet. But [my buddy] fucked me up, and then [her boyfriend] got in there.

One time, we were riding the train. We weren't making out or anything, but I think I kissed her. And [her boyfriend’s] sister, who had just moved to New York, happened to see us. So he found out about us kissing, and he shaved his head. But he didn't break up with her.

L: Did you do more than kiss?

“P”: I did sleep with her. It took me like a year or something, you know, like it was a long fucking time and when we slept together, it was sort of anticlimactic. But she also started hooking up with a few other guys that were in my [art scene].

And I was like, am I getting played by this chick? She could make anybody fall in love with her, with her voice, her figure, everything. If she wanted to seduce some fucking horny [artist] guys, they're not going to say no.

So then I started [making art] with [my ex]. Who was her friend, and they were good friends, but [my twin flame], she was one of those girls that didn't really have girl friends. [My current girlfriend] is like that too. Maybe that means something about me, like I’m lacking some feminine energy.

In any case, I started [making art] with [my ex]. I never intended to do anything with her. I was always like, this is my cool friend and she's [my twin flame’s] friend. I didn't even really talk to her. But we were kind of getting closer, in a weird way. You could just feel that, you could feel the vibrations. She was trying to get me to do [drugs].

She was really into [drugs]. So we tripped together, but we didn't hook up or anything. We just stood in this graveyard together. We were standing there, just looking. It was weird that we were even doing that. It was more intimate than sex.

Then I went over to her house, and she peer pressured me to [do more drugs], which I never would have done myself. And that was the first time we ever kissed. We got naked. We did not have sex just then, but we were touching naked. It was totally safe and amazing.

I'm glad I did that, but it was also the beginning of, oh, God. Now I'm in this fucking relationship.

L: But you could have said no, right? You never had to do it again.

“P”: Well, you know, she told me how she’d hooked up with some guy once, and felt a wall go up on his side. So at that moment I was like, I don't want to be some shitty toxic guy who’s throwing a wall up. I didn't want to be mean, or whatever.

And I'd run into her sometimes. I was coming back from [an event] one night, going into the subway, and she and her sister were standing in front of me. So I thought, I'm on the same path as this person already. There's something here that I need to explore.

I'm dumb in that way, you know? I wasn't trying to have a girlfriend. I was totally fine being single. I liked being single. I love being independent. And then about a year after I started dating [my ex], we ran into [the girl I loved]. She saw us crossing the street together, and she looked really upset.

While we were fucking, I was sure she was fucking this other guy. I was like, You’ve got to be fucking this guy, and you’re fucking me, and you’re flirting with this other guy, and then she got super close with some other [artist]. So I'm imagining [her boyfriend] just looks the other way, or maybe understands. There are certain people you stay with, no matter what they do.

That’s what [my twin flame] is like; she’s an incredible person. It’s so different with [my girlfriend]. She’s got this mean-spirited personality. She and her friends make fun of people. They make fun of people that I like, right to their face. I don't like that. I'm not like that. I don't fucking make fun of people. I'm not mean to people. I'm Mr. Nice Guy.

So she's got a side that's dark and threatening. She always sends me these memes that are like bunnies and lambs and cats wrestling and pouncing on each other and shit, little kittens and shit. It's like, this is not who you are. You are hiding behind this. You are like a boxing glove inside of this. You're not this innocent, cuddly little nice person.

But it's frustrating because all of these big-shots love her. They think she's awesome and I'm this monster that's trying to take advantage of her, or something. To me, it's kind of the other way around. I'm like, do you just like destroying me? Do you like having power over me?

Because the last [years] of my life could have been really big for me in a way that I really need. I'm from [a backwater]. I'm not from [a big city]. [My girlfriend’s] not rich, I don't think, but my parents have never given me any money at all. My life’s going to shit, the world’s going to shit. So I might as well enjoy myself.

That’s why I’m cheating on her. I was at an event, and this girl came in who was so hot that I was like, you know what? I just have to do this. The last time I didn't do this, I still think about it. Like, why did I not hook up with this girl in college? Because for a man, especially after the pandemic, you don't know when you're gonna have that kind of opportunity.

There's a spider-sense, like OK, this girl's into it. I don't know when I'm gonna get another chance like this. And my sex life with [my girlfriend] is not really a sex life at all. I don't feel super comfortable objectifying her and she likes getting slapped, or choked, or whatever. I'm not really into that stuff. I can do it, but…

L: Do you think your girlfriend is pretty?

“P”: Yeah. I mean, she's not, like, you know, my physical, you know. I will say, the reason I dated my ex was that I was like, this girl's pretty hot, you know, this is as hot a girl as has ever wanted to date me. With [my girlfriend], it's different.

She's gotten — I mean, they both got prettier when they met me. I feel like they feed on my energy or something. When [my girlfriend] met me, she was kind of sloppy, kind of in the dumps. And she got pretty clean, pretty nice over the last couple of years.

I’m sure she used to think of herself as a tomboy or something, like, in high school. She was probably kind of a nerd. And I know this sounds insane, but I'm more attracted to someone’s intelligence. I mean, I won't date somebody who’s not attractive at all, but my first girlfriend was not really…

Do you watch Mad Men? Do you know Peggy? She kind of looked like Peggy. She was kind of, like, a Peggy type. That's not Don Draper's wife, you know, but I'm usually with women that are smart.

L: So to you, your girlfriend is more “smart”, less “attractive”?

“P”: She would not be happy with that description, I don't think. Like I said, she's gotten a lot more attractive, but she's not the type of woman that turns heads or anything.

You know, she’s OK. But usually, the more attractive a woman is, the less she wants to hang out with me.

There was a string of women that I hooked up with that I would totally have wanted to spend more time with, but they were not interested. They talked to me once and never wanted to talk again — these skinny white women.

That doesn't feel good. They can get whoever, whatever they want. Me, I can't date anybody I want to date. So it’s kind of nice, you know, that [my girlfriend] is obsessed with me. She thinks I'm great.

It’s like she pushed and pushed and pushed me, so I wrestled her to the ground, as if to prevent her from doing any more damage.

Like OK, now we're hugging. Stop attacking.

Stop attacking me.

Post image from Que la bête meure (1969), dir. Claude Chabrol.